Tim Ferriss and Matt Mullenweg in Antarctica: Exploring Personal Fears, Bucket Lists, Facing Grief, Crafting Life Missions, and Tim’s Best Penguin Impressions (#578)

“I think doing the right thing for the wrong reason is still the right thing.”

— Matt Mullenweg

Matt Mullenweg (@photomatt) is a co-founder of the open-source publishing platform WordPress, which now powers more than one-third of all sites on the web. He is the founder and CEO of Automattic, the company behind WordPress.com, WooCommerce, Tumblr, WPVIP, Day One, and Pocket Casts. Additionally, Matt runs Audrey Capital, an investment and research company. He has been recognized for his leadership by Forbes, Bloomberg Businessweek, Inc., TechCrunch, Fortune, Fast Company, Wired, Vanity Fair, and the University Philosophical Society. 

Matt is originally from Houston, Texas, where he attended the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts and studied jazz saxophone. In his spare time, Matt is an avid photographer. He currently splits his time between Houston and Jackson Hole.

For my first interview with Matt, way back in 2015, go to tim.blog/matt.

Please enjoy!

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The transcript of this episode can be found here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

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What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

SCROLL BELOW FOR LINKS AND SHOW NOTES…

Want to hear another episode recorded during my time on Earth’s southernmost continent? Lend your ear to my conversation with filmmaker and photographer Sue Flood, in which we discuss her work with nature documentary icon David Attenborough, swimming with orcas, the perfection of the emperor penguin, the story of her divorce whale, common mistakes made by rookie wildlife photographers, and much more.

SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Connect with Matt Mullenweg:

Twitter | Instagram | Blog | Facebook | Spotify

• Distributed with Matt Mullenweg
• WordPress.com
• WordPress.org
• Automattic
• WooCommerce
• Tumblr
• WordPress VIP
• Day One
• Pocket Casts
• Audrey Capital
• Books I’ve Loved — Matt Mullenweg | The Tim Ferriss Show #420
• The Random Show Threesome — Tim Ferriss, Kevin Rose, and Matt Mullenweg | The Tim Ferriss Show #209
• Matt Mullenweg: Characteristics and Practices of Successful Entrepreneurs | The Tim Ferriss Show #190
• Matt Mullenweg on Polyphasic Sleep, Tequila, and Building Billion-Dollar Companies | The Tim Ferriss Show #61
• Glenmorangie
• How to Pronounce Glenmorangie by Brian Cox | Esquire
• Usage Statistics and Market Share of WordPress, March 2022 | W3Techs
• The New Working | P2
• The Collaborative Interface Design Tool | Figma
• Dylan Field, Figma Co-founder, Talks Design, Digital Economy, and Remote Culture with Host Connie Yang | Distributed
• Holstee Reflection Cards | Amazon
• Tequila Casa Dragones Joven
• A Rare Podcast at 30 Below Zero — Sue Flood on Antarctica, Making Your Own Luck, Chasing David Attenborough, and Reinventing Yourself | The Tim Ferriss Show #567
• A Total Solar Eclipse Bathed Antarctica in Darkness | Popular Science
• How a Total Solar Eclipse Created France, Italy, and Germany | KSAT
• A Very Short Guide to Union Glacier Camp | Vimeo
• The Tail End | Wait But Why
• Tools of Titans: The Tactics, Routines, and Habits of Billionaires, Icons, and World-Class Performers by Tim Ferriss | Amazon
• On Grief and Grieving by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and David Kessler | Amazon
• Feeling Down? Explore the Clinical Stages of Grief Here | Healthline
• History of Memento Mori | Daily Stoic
• Find Happiness by Contemplating Your Mortality | WeCroak
• Momentum | Chrome Web Store
• The #1 App for Meditation and Sleep | Calm
• Built for Better | Fitbod
• Hu Kitchen Chocolate Covered Almonds | Amazon
• The 4-Hour Body: An Uncommon Guide to Rapid Fat Loss, Incredible Sex, and Becoming Superhuman by Timothy Ferriss | Amazon
• Memory Special: Can You Trust Your Memories? | New Scientist
• Stories from People of All Backgrounds and Beliefs | StoryCorps
• Zoom H6 6-Track Portable Recorder | Amazon
• XLR 3-Pin Microphone Cable (6 Feet) | Amazon
• Panasonic BQ-CC55 “Advanced” eneloop Individual Battery 3-Hour Quick Charger | Amazon
• Shure MV88 iOS Digital Stereo Condenser Microphone for iPhone | Amazon
• Shure SM58-LC Cardioid Vocal Microphone | Amazon
• Shure KSM8/B Dualdyne Vocal Microphone | Amazon
• Banya Hats | Etsy
• Rick Rubin on Cultivating World-Class Artists (Jay-Z, Johnny Cash, etc.), Losing 100+ Pounds, and Breaking Down The Complex | The Tim Ferriss Show #76
• Gould Bay Camp | Antarctic Logistics & Expeditions
• Is Drinking Urine Good for You? | Healthline
• Internal Family Systems (IFS)
• Jim Collins on The Value of Small Gestures, Unseen Sources of Power, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #483
• What Is an Example of Negative Selection Bias? | Quora
• Lyme Disease | CDC
• Enzyme-Linked Immunosorbent Assay (ELISA) | Stanford Health Care
• Hobbes’ Moral and Political Philosophy | Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
• The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined by Steven Pinker | Amazon
• The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss | Amazon
• Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals by Oliver Burkeman | Amazon
• Bill of Lading | Investopedia
• This Timeline Shows the Entire History of the Universe, and Where It’s Headed | Science Alert
• Conscious: A Brief Guide to the Fundamental Mystery of the Mind by Annaka Harris | Amazon
• Sum: Tales from the Afterlives by David Eagleman | Amazon
• Burning Man
• Ready Player One | Prime Video
• Physician-Assisted Suicide | American Medical Association
• Nonduality: Defining the Undefinable | Deconstructing Yourself
• Category: Open Source | Matt Mullenweg
• Should I Have Kids: 6 Tips to Help You Decide If You Want to Start a Family | Vox
• Texas Leaf Cutting Ant | Insects in the City
• All About Auroras: Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) and Aurora Australis for Kids | FreeSchool
• World’s Best Wall Dives | Sport Diver
• Buoyancy Control Devices (BCD) | PADI
• Dr. Adam Gazzaley, UCSF — Brain Optimization and the Future of Psychedelic Medicine | The Tim Ferriss Show #507
• It’s the Dawn of a New Space Age — At Least for Billionaires | Vox
• James Cameron Completes Record-Breaking Mariana Trench Dive | National Geographic
• Protecting the Amazon in Partnership with Indigenous and Other Local Communities | Amazon Conservation Team
• Plants of the Gods — Dr. Mark Plotkin on Ayahuasca, Shamanic Knowledge, the Curse and Blessing of Coca, and More | The Tim Ferriss Show #508
• What Is Scientism, and Why Is It a Mistake? | Big Think
• Another Way of Knowing: The Poetry of Psychological Inquiry by Miller Mair | Amazon
• Of Wolves and Men by Barry Lopez | Amazon
• The Bering Land Bridge Theory | Bering Land Bridge National Preserve
• What Is Meant by Native Americans and Some Wolf Biologists Referring to a ‘Conversation of Death’ between Wolves and Wild Prey Animals? | Quora
• Watch a Coyote and Badger Hunt Their Prey Together | Smithsonian
• Tien Nguyen: How a Few Scientists Transformed the Way We Think about Disease | TED-Ed
• Fantastic Fungi | Prime Video
• These AIs Think They Can Translate Your Dog’s Barks | The Next Web
• America’s Pet Cloning Experts | ViaGen Pets
• Reflections on Cloning | Libreria Editrice Vaticana
• From Tree to Shining Tree | Radiolab
• Why Infant Surgery Without Anesthesia Went Unchallenged | The New York Times
• Tucker Sno-Cat
• The Surprising and Unexpected Benefits of Not Cursing | Service Excellence
• Mens Rea | Legal Information Institute
• The Vaccine Miracle: How Scientists Waged the Battle against COVID-19 | The Guardian

SHOW NOTES

Note from the editor: Timestamps will be added shortly.

• In Antarctica, even your neatest scotch is served on the rocks — and you have to take it with you when you’re finished.
• How we’re dealing with perpetual daylight and zero access to the internet.
• For anyone who hasn’t caught his past appearances and mentions on this show, who is Matt Mullenweg, and what keeps him busy when he’s not camping on Antarctican sea ice?
• What our morning immersed in the “patient” landscape of Antarctica has been like so far.
• Why a total solar eclipse needs to be experienced firsthand to understand why it’s such a big deal.
• Antarctican skin care and rollicking penguin imitations.
• What’s happened in Matt’s world since the last time we talked on this podcast? How does he keep each day interesting?
• What Matt has found most helpful for enduring the grieving process since his father passed away.
• You probably have a smartphone. Here’s why you should use it to record some of the time you spend with loved ones when you have the chance, and what you might talk to them about.
• Podcast tech spec updates since our last conversation that make recording possible at any temperature on Earth.
• As Matt says, “You can’t spell ‘Tim’ without ‘TMI.’” That’s why I’m going to talk about the time I sampled my own urine.
• We each answer the question posed by a card from the Holstee Reflection Deck: “What is one fear you would like to conquer?”
• Strange comfort I derived from a recent existential revelation, and where I found it.
• Next card: “If a crystal ball could tell you the truth about your life, the world, or anything else, what would you want to know?”
• Another card: “If you knew that in one year you would die suddenly, what would you change about the way you’re living now? Why?”
• At the time of this conversation, what would I put on my billboard?
• New card: “What are two things still on your bucket list?”
• We need more billionaires exploring the oceans and the non-Western worlds of ritual and myth with the same exuberance as the ones currently exploring space.
• Would I clone my dog Molly? Matt shares his own experience with getting to know a cloned animal after its genetically identical predecessor passed away.
• More bucket list items.
• Why Matt doesn’t curse, and what he does when he gets really angry.
• The next card: “Do intentions matter more or less than actions?”
• The last card: “What are you grateful for right now?”

MORE MATT MULLENWEG QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW

“How are we ever going to understand aliens if we can’t understand dogs?”
— Matt Mullenweg

“I think doing the right thing for the wrong reason is still the right thing.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“Where I’m not Zen at all is I get upset on behalf of others.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“I think it’d be kind of cool if our brains are antennas to some deeper consciousness and we reconnected with it, sort of went back to that non-dual nature of enlightenment.”
— Matt Mullenweg

“We’re hoping to do for e-commerce what we did for websites.”
— Matt Mullenweg

PEOPLE MENTIONED

The Tim Ferriss Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world with more than 700 million downloads. It has been selected for “Best of Apple Podcasts” three times, it is often the #1 interview podcast across all of Apple Podcasts, and it’s been ranked #1 out of 400,000+ podcasts on many occasions. To listen to any of the past episodes for free, check out this page.